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Post by christina61 on Aug 27, 2008 16:00:14 GMT 2
Why a journal and not a diary? or a notebook? is just one example of the type of question we'll be considering during the on-line chat in this workshop come November.
Books by writers who journal in ways I have found helpful:
May Sarton Natalie Goldberg Audre Lorde - most specifically The Cancer Journals
What if I am not a gardener and don't know compost from a riposte? You are still welcome. Remember, you do have an internal gardener, even if s/he isn't manifest. This gardening image can be taken literally or as a useful metaphor. Don't worry if you haven't had your hands in any humus lately! But do bring your sense of humor to this thread!
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Post by julierenszer on Nov 5, 2008 3:41:27 GMT 2
Thanks for this thread. I was looking at a journal of mine earlier today and noting how in the past year or so my journals have become exclusively that - journals. By that I mean a space in which I gather materials for poems as opposed to a diary where I record daily events or even write in a sustained way about events in my life. Rather, of late, my journals have been a space to capture ideas and images for poems. I'm not sure that I miss at this time the life-writing element of journaling or writing a diary. Perhaps it is just the time and space that I am in in my life and it will change at other times. Certainly, these developments of the past year are newer. Older journals do contain more of that life-writing.
I am quite fond of Mary Rose O'Reilly's The Love of Impermanent Things. Not a journal per se, but creative essays that have a journal feel to them at times.
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Post by christina61 on Nov 5, 2008 16:40:12 GMT 2
Thanks for such a thoughtful response. Yes, earlier journals of mine also had more of the life commentary but always interposed there was the work in its earliest form and repeated drafts as well. I saw this in journal after journal that I turned over to Bentley collection at University of Michigan earlier this year. It was personally exciting for me to see these early works and know I had taken the seed toward the light with new forms: poems, short stories, essays. I love to blend it all, which is one of the reasons I truly appreciate Sarton's journals, as she seems to do this so well. Not aware of O' Reilly's work. Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to check her out.
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Post by kbecker on Nov 7, 2008 3:03:53 GMT 2
I honestly had not thought abt this distinction before. I have kept journals since 4th grade (when a teacher gave me one to encourage my writing!), but several years ago stopped keeping them. or so I had thought until I read this thread. instead, they have changed and are less a place to record daily events and more a gathering place as Julie mentioned. so I am heartened to know that all my falling-apart cheapie spiral notebooks are actually "journals." I have not read Sarton, but I did read all of Virginia Woolf's diaries years ago and even there, could see here work through her work. I like the way Adrienne Rich dates her poems. Makes them seem more "journal-like" as poetic entries. I recently wrote a poem in which I incorporated portions of Lewis's (of Lewis & Clark) journal. So the day-to-day events that may bore us about ourselves may be of interest to others. It is wonderful you have found a home for your papers, Christina! Thank you for leading this workshop! Best--Kim
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Post by christina61 on Nov 7, 2008 16:24:16 GMT 2
I believe there is a big difference between a diary and a journal, though in some ways they overlap. A diary is more a recording of events but a journal, while referring to the passage of time from the French jour- day is also, and more importantly I should think - a journey. Like compost is on a journey to making soil and a well-nourished garden. I tried once to separate my writing into different journals a la Doris Lessing's main character in The Golden Notebook and there were some workshop leaders who suggested doing so, though I can't remember now who, but I discovered I never seemed to have the proper journal with me when I needed it, so shortly I returned to a single journal. When I was travelling as a North Carolina Visiting Artist or in the PITS program before that, or in Poland, or Haiti, my journal was a lifeline for me, a grounding - there's that earth/dirt imagery again - a way to write down what I was experiencing and sort it out later into poems. My book This Is Not a Place to Sing (West End, 1987) is entirely sprung from journals kept while in Poland studying Polish-Jewish relations at the Jagiellonian University in the summer of 1986.
I had not made the connection before about my love for Rich and her poems being dated as journals. I usually date mine to begin with but submit without a date.
Many of my early journals were in spiral notebooks, some with orange, yellow, chartreuse pages - these were the 70's after all - and they were included in what I sent to U of Michigan.
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Post by lisajean on Nov 8, 2008 14:54:50 GMT 2
My old journals are notebooks filled with daily rambles and some story starts as I was writing short stories in those days. They were all spiral bound notebooks and a small part of me wants to burn them in embarrassment. But I think there are probably gems to be mined in them if I ever get the courage to go back there.
My current poetry journals are Moleskiene bound notebooks and they are filled with words and lines and single images and possible titles. I go back and skim through them all the time for the thing that will jump out at me and make a poem.
I have found that if I don't write down these small nuggets, I lose them rather quickly, so I keep notebooks in the bathroom, at my side table where I usually sit, and in my purse.
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Post by christina61 on Nov 8, 2008 18:26:34 GMT 2
Oh, those Moleskeine bound notebooks! Those do sound luxurious. I am unfamiliar with them, though. I like how you are able to utilize more than one journal and tuck them away in convenient spots.
I am constantly carrying my single journal - usually the best find/buy at Office Depot on Composition books when I manage to get there - upstairs or down and then to where I sit mostly and if I do go out to more than grocery shop, I usually put it in a larger bag of some sort.
I particularly love when I have been able to use my journal outdoors like an artist uses a sketch pad, but I have had to curtail those woodsy experiences in the past few years.
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Post by moira on Nov 8, 2008 21:03:31 GMT 2
ah, I got here at last - been wanting to follow these discussions for a particular reason, although not poetry related. I've just started writing a college accounting textbook - applied accounting, practical stuff and I'm wanting to incorporate a journalling exercise into each of the 18 modules. As a reflexive/learning/focussing sort of aspect to each new facet of knowledge. And also to encourage writing/journalling as a skill for the students. Not quite sure how yet, or where to start tho' ... "1. Write down why you are studying accounting. " but what to say re why they should write this down in a journal ... sorry if I'm way off topic here xx, moi
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Post by kbecker on Nov 9, 2008 17:01:59 GMT 2
Interesting and goes to show how we can incorporate writing into our "real" jobs. Altho I am the last person to ask about accounting, I have used journaling to good effect in retreats I have led. I generally have provided some jumping-off questions as you suggest, just to get the ball rolling and so people won't feel petrified of the blank page (I often buy a bunch of little spiral memo pads in case people have not brought their own materials.) As to what to say re why: I think you answered yourself and could use same approach with students. To help them reflect on their process and allow them to record responses that might not fit within the usual assignments. Money is often a very emotional subject (esp now) and so maybe getting them to do some reflection on what finances meant in their families of origin. Also, I was not leading a class per se, but I never demanded to see the fruits of the journaling, altho offered to read if they wanted me to. Not sure how that works in a class. My AP English teacher and a German professor both had us journal in response to our readings and often would jot comments down. I found it very helpful and yes, it certainly encouraged my writing! Best of luck. They are fortunate to have you! Kim PS and now re-reading your post I see (duh!) that it is for textbook so you won't be on frontline. nonetheless, I think you can do a good thing by introducing some journaling exercises!
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Post by christina61 on Nov 9, 2008 20:49:12 GMT 2
Moi, Kim, et al - Kim has the right idea and I agree that personal reflection on finances would be excellent for students within an accounting textbook and you could, say, slant each journal exercise to focus on what that chapter might be about, but from a personal viewpoint. If I had chapter headings/brief outlines, I could make a more pithy suggestion, but you get the idea I know. Excellent idea, btw!!!
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Post by moira on Nov 9, 2008 22:47:08 GMT 2
thanks Kim, Christina for these responses! the modules are all on really tech aspects for example - accounting for sales on credit - payroll accounting - keeping track of accounts to be paid I guess I can suggest they journal their learning/understanding difficulties, their enjoymen (or not) of the course, and yes! - relating modules to their own lives - especially accounts payable .. I want to try and think up 18 different aspects so as to spread a sort-of mini-journaling course throughout the book. I've found (when I was teaching accounting in a classroom) that my students tend to be far more 'number-literate' than most people but also, far less 'word-literate'. Which was fine until they had to read tomes and tomes of tax law when the wheels really came unstuck for many of them. So I'm hoping to try slide a little of the latter type literacy inbetween the numbers in this book xx, moi
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Post by christina61 on Nov 10, 2008 17:35:17 GMT 2
- accounting for sales on credit - payroll accounting - keeping track of accounts to be paid
Moi - I don't really know SA Students at all but I am guessing that there may be some personal troubles surrounding credit - obtaining it, managing it, avoiding bankruptcy or at least avoiding more credit than can be handled, which dovetails into keeping track of accounts to be paid, so that might be fruitful for topics to write on. Maybe journaling here could be keeping track of all expenditures for a day/week, relating that to money needed for other items? What was useful in what was spent? Disposable? Unnecessary? The similarities/differences between personal accounting and accounting for a firm/business and writing about those could also be useful. Maybe if these students are married or contemplating being so or sharing household expenses with a partner, then they'd like to write about their views on money in their relationship, how does it differ or not from their parther's views?
Also history of numbers/accounting procedures could be mini-topics which then are written about.
Intriguing "writing across the curriculum" idea to include written word/journal in with a "numbers book". Good luck with it.
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Post by moira on Nov 10, 2008 19:22:41 GMT 2
Maybe journaling here could be keeping track of all expenditures for a day/week, relating that to money needed for other items? What was useful in what was spent? Disposable? Unnecessary? The similarities/differences between personal accounting and accounting for a firm/business and writing about those could also be useful. Maybe if these students are married or contemplating being so or sharing household expenses with a partner, then they'd like to write about their views on money in their relationship, how does it differ or not from their parther's views? Hi Christina, I've learned a lot from the ideas here - these above in particular could make both journalling and accounting real for the students. Thanks so much xx, moi
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Post by shayepoet on Nov 10, 2008 22:27:15 GMT 2
In high school, my husband and I took a class-- "Marriage & Family." One of the largest chapters was on finances, apt I suppose as it's one of the 3 biggest 'issues' in a partnership. While I cannot claim any expertise having rubbed off on either of us concerning money, I remember well the importance of shared goals and priorities -- explored through pie charts, spending journals vs goal journals, spread sheets, charts, etc. I can easily see such principles being implemented for business. Sounds simple in theory but harder in practice. Especially, whether in a partnership if the priorities of profits/income are to be used in day-to-day living expenses OR invested back into the business or partnership for growth. We've watched friends with businesses that chose the former, "hand to mouth" survival, and those businesses failed completely when profits/sales went down for short periods and there was no 'seed money' stashed away, however small it might seem. I wish in the few accounting courses I've taken, there had been more exploration of and focus on priorites and how to keep track of the progress on those early goals partners/businesses set! Like keeping/reviewing journals! My three pennies.
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Post by moira on Nov 11, 2008 17:37:33 GMT 2
Sounds simple in theory but harder in practice. Especially, whether in a partnership if the priorities of profits/income are to be used in day-to-day living expenses OR invested back into the business or partnership for growth. We've watched friends with businesses that chose the former, "hand to mouth" survival, and those businesses failed completely when profits/sales went down for short periods and there was no 'seed money' stashed away, however small it might seem. I wish in the few accounting courses I've taken, there had been more exploration of and focus on priorites and how to keep track of the progress on those early goals partners/businesses set! Like keeping/reviewing journals! My three pennies. good point! I can bring that into the section on recording expenses - thinking/journalling about more than just incurring and recording expenses ... writing the whole discretionary budgeting/spending/saving aspect over which one can actually take some control ... xx, moi
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Post by christina61 on Nov 12, 2008 18:09:11 GMT 2
Oh, who would have thought that numbers could yield so much in terms of the written word, eh? I think "writing across the curriculum" works most often when journals are used in the "non-writing class" or at least journal techniques - do nows for that chalk board, maybe, even?
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